6 Tips for Helping Dyslexic Kids Learn Foreign Languages + Should They Even Have To?

It's hard enough for our dyslexic kids to learn to read and write in English, and now we expect them to learn a foreign language too?

Hey everyone, we're Nick and Sonja, and this is Dyslexia Journey, where we discuss issues to help you support the dyslexic kid in your life. All right, today we're talking about learning foreign languages as a dyslexic, and this is a topic, this is kind of a hot topic, we've had several requests to discuss it on the show, so today we're tackling it. You know, we don't have all the answers, well we never have all the answers, but today especially I feel like we're just delving into this topic, there's a lot to discuss, it's a tricky subject, so anyways, let's dive in.

So, we obviously are based in the United States, and here in the United States, learning a foreign language is generally required in high school, it's often required in middle school as well, and it is a university entrance requirement for most universities as well. And so, I think it's something that, as parents of dyslexic kids, that we are, in the U.S. at least, that we're going to face. And also, for people who grow up outside the U.S. with English, not as their native language, I think most people are required to learn English or another foreign language in school as well.

And also, for many kids growing up in the U.S., English is not their native language, there's many native Spanish speakers and other speakers of other languages natively, who, for them, English in school is already a second language. And so, for dyslexic kids who, you know, whether their native language is English in the U.S., and now they're learning a foreign language for the first time, or whether their native language is Spanish or another language, and they've already learned English, and now we're expecting them to learn perhaps a third language in middle school and high school, this can be especially challenging and intimidating for dyslexic kids.

So, you know, we'll get into some of the reasons why, but it's something, I think, that both the kids themselves worry about and also as parents that we worry about as well, because we spend so much time helping them with remediation just in English. It's really almost overwhelming to contemplate trying to help them learn a foreign language as well. And as we dive in here, just a couple caveats. One is that, you know, we actually, even though we're going to dive into this and try to take a critical eye looking at it, we do really see the value in foreign language learning, like, as a whole.

So we're not trying to say that it's unimportant or shouldn't be valued. We very much think that it's important, partly for the sort of cultural aspects that often go along with it, where you learn often about another culture at the same time. But that even applies to language, like, some of the things you learn when you learn a foreign language shows some of the nuances even of just thinking in different cultures, for example.

And so, and it's also just a really important intellectual exercise to try to learn another language. So we definitely want to emphasize that we see the value in that. And then the other thing is just simply kind of like we mentioned already, that we're coming from the perspective, as you can see, of native English speakers. So there's probably a lot more nuances and other aspects that could be covered by someone else as well, coming not from that perspective.

So diving in just a little more before we start to get to trying to think about what some solutions might be and what some tips might be for the current way things are. Let's talk a little more about the problem. So we kind of divided this into three, and the first one's just sort of the basic of what you're probably already thinking, which is that there's going to be similar challenges that dyslexic kids face in English, reading and writing, for whatever the foreign language is that they're studying.

So there's going to probably be difficulty with spelling, there may be difficulty as well with reading, possibly skipping, often it's skipping words, or sometimes skipping lines, finding one's place, that kind of thing. Like all those same challenges are going to apply still to the foreign language as well. Right. I mean, learning a foreign language is another language arts. And so language arts is often the most challenging class for dyslexic kids. And so adding a second language arts class on that, one in which they don't have the sort of verbal and oral familiarity to fall back on, makes it especially challenging.

Right, right, right, right. So that's a good point, actually, because, you know, we don't, the part where we are hearing it at home, so, you know, from birth potentially, obviously helps a lot already with English and being able to, you know, make guesses on things. And often use some of that to help in order to sort of have your own compensation as a dyslexic person. And so, and then the second thing I wanted to mention is the concept of phonetic languages, which are languages that are more, each, like each part of the word more directly has a particular sound it makes.

So you probably have noticed, you know, in English, we are not a phonetic language. So, you know, our vowels are often pronounced very different in different words, but some languages, for example, Finnish, which, you know, I have background in, and then Spanish is also more like this, are much more directly, you write certain letters and they're always pronounced the same. So I think that could potentially be helpful to someone learning to read and write in a language.

However, I think it's important to note that it's, there's still a lot of aspects of dyslexia that still apply even with a phonetic language. And so, for example, like the concept of verb conjugation, which we don't really think about a lot in English, even a phonetic language like Spanish does have the verb conjugation where the, the sort of ending of, of the verb changes depending on whether it's the first person and second person, et cetera.

And so even though it's, it's phonetic and it's always pronounced the same and you can sort of hear all the letters as you pronounce it, still just having to learn that concept, I think can, can be a little challenging. Or, and even, or even if the, the student understands the concept, it's, it's often will be the same beginning of the word, right? And so something that a lot of dyslexic people do is, you know, see the beginning of a word and then sort of assume the ending of it.

Or maybe not even realizing they're doing it. They look similar. The words look similar to them. And so then that each time that's conjugated, it potentially could, could look like the same word. and, and then, and similarly there can, the same thing applies still about, leaving out sometimes the middle of a word or seeing a similar word that looks similar. And then it's, you know, thinking it's that word. So all of that still applies even with a phonetic language.

And then let's see, did you want to talk about sort of the opposite, the other kind of language situation? The other side of that is languages that have a lot of homophones, homophones, which are words that, are pronounced the same, but spelled differently. And so I think, in sort of the Western language family, French is the classic example of this, where there are, spelling in French. And we often joke that in French, you sort of don't pronounce the second half of the word, like the, the, the sort of in the verge conjugations, you can't, you can't often hear the difference, but it's spelled differently.

and so when you study French, which we, we actually both study French in school, it's traditionally, you have to just kind of memorize those spellings. And then it's, it's counted, you know, incorrect if you don't, if you don't, spell the word correctly, even if you pronounce it correctly. And so that one might think would be especially challenging for our dyslexic kids, to, you know, not only do you have to sort of memorize these arbitrary spellings, like you sometimes feel like you have to do in English, but, but you don't even have the sort of the pronunciation aspect to fall back on there.

Okay. So I think that, kind of encapsulates the, some of the problems, that we see that our dyslexic kids might face around studying foreign languages. So let's start talking about some solutions. So first of all, I think, dyslexic or not, it's generally understood that the, the best and easiest way to learn a foreign language is through immersion. And that is kind of rather than, learning to sort of translate specific words and, and, and memorize verb conjugations.

It's really, getting immersed in the language, listening to it, trying to speak it, et cetera. And so, that's not how, I was taught French originally in school. you know, I, I did a lot of memorizing spellings and verb conjugations and stuff. And then when I actually got to French speaking countries, I realized that I didn't really, even know how to carry on a conversation. so it was, not necessarily the best way to learn.

and I think, yeah. And I mean, it was similar for me. I felt like I thought I had that part down pretty well, actually, but, I still was often really, not quite on with the cadence of the language. So there's definitely like a flow of how people actually talk, even if you've learned, you know, basically like you might even learn, you know, emphasize the first syllable or is there things like that?

but there's still this natural cadence that's different in how native speakers actually talk. and just as a little aside about, about the immersion, I actually took, Latin also in high school and my Latin teacher was such a big believer in immersion that he didn't even let us look at the written language for quite a while. As we, as we started, to first learn it, even though of course it's not really a living language anymore.

So I thought that was kind of funny, but he was just, he just really believed in that, that like here at first, and, and he very much also approached it in ways that were very oral like that. So that's good. And I think the good news actually now, for those of us with dyslexic kids now who are just starting this journey is that, at least our experience, with, with our two children, having studied foreign languages in the U S in, starting a little bit in elementary school with some Spanish.

And then in middle school is that, the focus has shifted, to a more, a more immersive approach. in elementary school, they, they kind of did it through song a little bit. And then in middle school and high school, more emphasis on conversation and comprehension, oral comprehension and things like that. And less emphasis on the, the sort of traditional aspects of learning a language, like, like the, details of the spelling and, and, the, the sort of reading and writing aspects.

So I think that's, that's actually good news. I don't know if that's universally true, across the whole United States. obviously we're only in one particular state in Colorado, but it does seem to be the shifting that direction. Yeah. Probably because of the importance of, I'm guessing it's, you know, more about just seeing the importance of actually being able to converse and use it in that way is my guess. so the next big solution besides, you know, learning immersion as like a really important and more helpful way for dyslexics to learn the language and maybe for everybody.

Right. is just the question of should foreign languages be required at all. And I think it's really gets into the broader issue of, of how much choice students should have probably over, over different electives and different subject areas and all of it. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I'm torn on this because I do, agree with what Sonja said earlier about all the value in learning foreign languages. And I think, especially in the U S we don't emphasize this as much as at least as a lot of European countries do.

We sort of take it for granted in the U S that, that we, we don't have to learn another foreign language to sort of be worldly and get along in the world anymore. On the other hand, like, does it really make sense if someone maybe doesn't feel like they're ever going to use a language, you know, that particular foreign language. And it's like really, you know, causing difficulties for the rest of their curriculum and, and what they're doing to, to have to require it specifically.

Right. and so, so, so it's interesting because there are definitely some other schools, sometimes specific to dyslexic students, that have very different approaches. I don't even, I don't know enough to know specifically how they handle foreign language, but I do know, cause it's kind of from Ted talks and things like that, that I've seen where there's more of the emphasis on particular strengths or, more like the style of learning, but more focused maybe on hands-on learning type things.

so hands-on science, hands-on engineering is just more the focus of the school. So that's, so you could think of it as sort of a whole school wide, like approach kind of thing, or I think we could think about it a little more like, should there just be more choice, should there just be more choice? And like, we don't maybe make as much big a deal out of it. If every student doesn't have a particular category instead of like, you know, we've had the approach of people being very, very broad and, and what they're, what they're taking.

Yeah. I mean, in general, I'm in favor of, of much more choice and, and sort of student directed learning. So, I do, but, but I am torn on this one. Well, and I guess actually one more little. thing there too, is that it could be also considered an account. Exceptions could be considered an accommodation, right? So that's also a possibility, which, which starts to lead into our next area, which is some specific tips because, you know, right now we don't have a completely immersive method.

Right now foreign language is required. So what can be some tips for dealing with the way things are right now? All right. So we have six tips that we will cover here. And the first one is to think a little bit outside the box. So one example of that is you could consider as a foreign language, having your child learn American Sign Language or ASL, as it's commonly called. That's actually an offering, in both districts that our kids went to.

ASL was, was an option. And that is a completely different type of language, one that is much more visual spatial and one that, I think tends to appeal to dyslexic kids especially. And I wonder, it might even be possible if it's not offered in your district to, to have it count, you know, like if they take it somewhere else, they might be able to get credit for it. That's just something to look into.

Yeah. You could look into an online course or, a university or a community college course. Okay. The second tip we kind of already talked about, which is to look for, curriculum, curricula that emphasizes immersion and comprehension and, oral expression as much as possible. And that de-emphasizes the written, sort of pedantic details that, that have traditionally been emphasized in, in learning foreign languages. So number three is to really follow your child's interest always.

in our case, our daughter had taken some Spanish in middle school and, you know, liked it pretty well because again, in our district, they, they were emphasizing, at least in the classes she took, they were, they were emphasizing a lot. The, the, the, the oral expression part, but she really wanted to switch to French in high school. And, you know, I, I just wanted her to think about it carefully. So, you know, just mentioning, I mentioned to her definitely the thing about, you know, Spanish being phonetic, more phonetic than French and things like that.

but, but I did it very like carefully because I could tell she was excited about French. We have, you know, we have a connection to French in the family. And so she feels, she felt like she was really connected to it and really, really wanted to learn it. And absolutely her choose, she did choose that for herself. And that was the most important thing because she's the most engaged with it because she really like, it's important to her to learn it.

And it's actually one of her favorite classes now in high school. Yeah. I think, you know, in no small part because she really felt like she chose it. Yeah. Along with some of the other tips going pretty well for her that we're going to talk about. So, so I guess that leads right into number four, which is that she has had a lot of success with accommodations in French class. and so it, it can be tricky because often the spelling, when they're doing the written parts, you know, the spelling is very much counted, but there's a lot of ways that, there's a lot of ways.

It's first that the accommodations that you traditionally might use, like in a social studies class, for example, could be used, like when she sometimes has more of a presentation that has slides, she's able to prerecord it. and so that's, again, like it's, it's, it's really the same thing as for English for her, that it's hard to like go back and forth between her, you know, like bit of outline or phrase or something on a slide and actually speaking it.

And to do that like fluently on, you know, unless, unless she memorizes it, which she's done before too sometimes, but just depending on the situation. So you can use kind of the typical, accommodations for most things. Yeah. Another accommodation that, she asked for and, and was granted was, an oral part of the test where there's, a recording of, of, of something that she has to listen to and then answer questions about.

she, was given extra time to be able to read those questions ahead of time because it was very difficult for her to process reading the questions and listening to the person speaking. Right. Right. Right. And then in her case, you know, spelling hasn't been as much emphasized, but I, I even think that, you know, we can try to think outside the box for accommodations that could work. You know, if a teacher was concerned about that, if a kid was making a lot of spelling errors, you know, you could have them say out loud before the test, the rules, you know, maybe the conjugation rules so that the teacher knew, okay, they know the conjugation rules, you know, things like that.

so that if it's like a, a conjugation issue that the teacher can determine, you know, is it really the comprehension aspect of it or the understanding the rule and how it's supposed to be? Is it really more of a spelling issue or what, you know, what's happening there? It would take a little more discernment on the teacher's part, but I do think it's possible to have some accommodations around that if we think outside the box.

Right. So, and then did you want to do tip number five? Sure. Okay. So tip number five is, again, to either seek out instruction or to supplement the instruction that your child is getting with, approaches that, that speak to your child's strengths. So maybe that is music. song is a great way to learn foreign language. or maybe it's a more visual spatial approach, whatever that might be. It's difficult sometimes because we get stuck in sort of the traditional, way that, that things have been taught and that our children are expected to learn specific material.

And so it's helpful kind of just to step back and, and, again, it's, it's, again, a little bit thinking outside the box, but, but kind of thinking of alternative approaches, to, to getting, some sort of comprehension and foreign language mastery in there. Yeah. And I want to add in that there's, you know, like YouTube videos of cartoons in a different language. Those can be really fun for like really hearing a lot of the language.

and sometimes you could even put on the, it would, might go a little fast, but you, but it's helpful if it's a cartoon, cause it's often a little bit slower. you know, you could even have them, the words going by at the same time, if you like, and just other shows too. if you're trying to get that sort of immersive feel. And then the last tip, tip number six is don't assume it's going to go badly.

So I think we're always, we're worried about how our, our dyslexic kids will be able to handle kind of every, every new thing really. And, you know, we were especially worried about, about foreign language and about our daughter learning French, because of the reasons we discussed. And, but it's, it's really important not to assume, because, or not to sort of expect that things are going to go badly. And this is true in all areas, right?

I mean, often if we, if we expect things too much, then they actually happen. And letting our, you're in our case, letting our child really, really choose the language she wanted to study, really went a long ways toward, her ability to actually thrive in learning that particular language. And then just being confident that, you know, you will notice, I mean, I think you'd notice pretty quickly if there's issues and then, you know, next step might be to try to talk about accommodations more with the teacher and, and then hopefully getting towards some of those other bigger solutions though, if need be, where there could be, if, if, kids really struggling with it, that maybe there could be an exception made.

So, okay, so thanks for listening. this is, again, an important topic, one where we obviously don't have all the answers, but, hopefully, hopefully that discussion was useful. we'd like to hear from you. What are your experiences with your dyslexic kids learning, second and third languages? we're also really curious to hear from international folks, folks who, well, folks outside the U.S. who have learned English, dyslexic folks outside the U.S. who maybe have learned English or, people in the U.S.

who English was not their first language, who, are dyslexic and who have learned English. We're sort of curious how that, experience has been. what's your experience with, learning different languages? how do they compare, et cetera? let us know.