Supporting Dyslexic Kids and Their Families, ft. Psychologist Leanne Tran

Sometimes we can think that if kids can do it one day, they should be able to do it the next, and you should be able to handle this today because you did last week, but I think it's important to acknowledge that their level of functioning is going to change day to day, and so some days your kids won't have the capacity to do it, and it's probably not worth the fight and the argument if they're really upset.

When kids are upset, we know they don't learn anyway, so you may as well just let it go for that one day to have a child who feels good, a parent who feels good, and you can try again the next day.

Hello everyone, this is Dyslexia Journey, and we are Sonja and Nick, and today we have a special guest, Leanne Tran, is an Australian psychologist who specializes in working with neurodiverse children and their families. Welcome, Leanne. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Well, I'm very excited to, we're both very excited to hear about this important work that you do, but let's just start at the beginning. So, tell us a little bit about your background and how you then came to be interested in working with neurodiverse kids.

Yeah, sure. I think it's interesting, I wanted to be a teacher when I was in high school, but had a little bit of a switch at some point and thought maybe psychology is similar to teacher, but it's about, you know, life, really, rather than academics. And then I also had this experience growing up where I had a really mild hip condition, but it meant that I couldn't do things that other kids could do.

And so, that always had me feeling like I was a bit different from everybody else. And I think maybe that's what led me into working with kids who are different. I started working with kids with physical disabilities, cerebral palsy, and could relate to that feeling of just not quite being the same as everybody else. And that's, I found that really rewarding, working with kids to discover their own self and their own potential and strengths.

And that's what's really led me into working with all kinds of kids with neurodevelopmental differences.

So, you work with kids with dyslexia, with autism, all sorts of neurodiversity. Can you tell us a little bit more about your approach to working with neurodiverse kids? Yeah, sure. I think it's also, it would be summarized down into one word would be a strengths-based approach. I think it's, my approach is always about letting kids know who they are, their strengths and their challenges, because I think coming from that approach, it gives them the ability to really have a good self-identity and to be able to advocate for themselves for what they need.

And so, yeah, focusing on people's strengths while also addressing the challenges that they identify are priorities and that they would like to change is my overall approach. What's the typical sort of, you know, if a family comes to you with a dyslexic kid, what's the typical sort of top, like, concern that they have, if there is a typical? Yeah, I think there is. I do lots of assessment for dyslexia. So, when families are coming to that, to me at that point, they're often saying that their kids just, that they're worried because they're behind their peers in terms of academics.

They worry a lot that their kids are starting to feel dumb or say things like, I'm dumb. And to me, that represents that natural kind of progression that sometimes happens when kids have learning difficulties that then they make assumptions about why. They notice that they're maybe doing things differently to the rest of the kids in their class and they, you know, they give themselves reasons about it, whether, you know, telling themselves they're dumb or they're stupid or they can't do it.

So, often parents have those two worries. One is about the academics and falling behind. And the other one is about how their child's seeing themselves and that kind of negative self-perception. Sometimes, too, I think that can lead into then kids don't want to do the work because it's so hard and they don't feel good about it. They don't want to sit down and do writing. And so, that's the third element, I think, is that resistance to doing the work that then parents often feel really at a loss when they're trying to help with homework or that kind of thing because their kids really genuinely don't want to do it.

And it's a big struggle. I think emotionally that's really hard for parents to know what the right thing to do is. How much should I push and encourage and do this or how much should I, you know, respond to what my child's emotions are? I have a really quick follow-up and then I'd love to get into that parenting aspect because you have an interesting approach there. But before that, I'm just curious if, because, you know, we sometimes talk a lot about late identification and that kind of thing, you know, which can often happen with dyslexic kids.

So, would you say that you work with, like, a full age range of kids or do you see that certain ages tend to come to you more? I think the answer is both, yes, to both of those things. I do see a range and sometimes I've seen kids in, here we don't have middle school or anything, we just have primary school and high school. So, in high school, which for us is around grade seven to nine, so kids at that age are maybe 12 to 14.

And I guess for me that's what I would consider late diagnosis, but only because I just work with kids. I know some people are diagnosed later than that, but most often kids are coming to me around those early primary school years, maybe from, we call it prep here, so the first year of school when they're maybe five or so, through to maybe grade three. So, around nine or ten is the most common range, I think.

Yeah. And are you, are they often referred by the school or are they kind of reaching out on their own because they think something's wrong? Yeah, sometimes they are referred by the school. Sometimes they're reaching out on their own or they've seen a pediatrician who's referred them. I work with lots of kids who also have ADHD and so the two kind of go together a lot. So, sometimes in that case, pediatricians are a little bit more on top of the signs to look out for and be aware of and are referring a little bit earlier to understand a child's learning profile just in case or because they may have a learning disability or different.

So, yeah, in those cases, it's a little bit earlier. Sometimes parents get this feeling, though, that the school is just telling them it's okay, but it's not really okay.

And I think that's probably because sometimes kids can pass subjects, but they still have incredible difficulty, either that the work is really effortful or, you know, they need a lot of support to get it done. So, they're getting the message from the school that their child's okay, but they've got this gut feeling that it shouldn't be that difficult. Yeah, that's definitely something we have experienced and heard a lot as well from other people that can often happen.

So, yeah, so to get to the parenting aspect, what you call molded parenting, could you tell us what that is and maybe, like, what some of the techniques are that are involved with that? Yeah, I think that's a program I have to, I guess, help parents understand their child. So, to learn about their individual child, and I guess as part of that, it's the conditions their child might have, like autism, ADHD, or learning difficulties, even anxiety.

And to know that it's generally not that you're doing parenting wrong. It's just that the strategies might need to be a bit different for children who are developing differently. So, it's a way to teach parents skills, particular for their child's challenges. So, for example, with ADHD, we know that, you know, having ADHD kind of changes the way people parent because the traditional strategies don't work as well. But what's often parents don't know is exactly what their child needs because of how their brain is wired and then the strategies that correspond with that.

So, it's really trying to know that it's not the parenting that's wrong. You don't need to change how you parent. And I also think parents have a lot of, they have the ability to do everything their own child needs. It's what's missing often is just the information about what to do and how to tailor it to your own family. Because there's so much information out there. And I think anyone who's tried to change a habit would know that there's lots of information on how.

But it's actually a lot harder to put it into practice without some support along the way. Yeah. Would that look like the parents sort of also coming to work with you one-on-one? Or is it sort of a separate group that is involved or family, more like family therapy? Or how does that look? It's usually just we have an initial session and then it's just a little bit of information. So, it's an online course that parents can do.

Oh, okay. Interesting. And the initial session is all about trying to work out what might be missing in terms of their knowledge and, but more so confidence, what areas they don't feel confident in. And then they can access lots of online learning modules about those areas. And then we have a session at the end to almost like wrap up and see what goals they might set for beyond that course. And there's weekly support on how to tailor what they're learning to their individual child along the way.

Okay, great. That's wonderful support. Yeah. Available like that. And so, do you, and this is, I apologize because this is kind of an ignorant question because, you know, as Americans, we're not familiar with the system in Australia. Right. So, are you, do you do therapy with the kids or is that? Yeah, sometimes, yeah, I do. So, that's part of what I do as well. Yeah. So, the system, I don't know exactly how it's the same or different either.

But here, I work with children, but here, I work with children individually doing therapy, but also often offer these parents kind of information sessions as well. Got it, got it. So what kind of techniques do you find useful specifically when working with dyslexic kids? I guess the thing is my work with kids with dyslexia is often in that assessment part, but then after that if it's for intervention, they usually might see a specialist teacher, tutor or speech pathologist in our system, and my role is usually helping with the mental health side of things.

So whether it's confidence or anxiety or low mood that might have resulted from having dyslexia. And so my strategy, again, is about being strength-based and helping kids identify, usually they have amazing strengths. It's just that they're just only focusing on the bits that are different. So identifying strengths but then also with those challenges, working on resilience and the concept of grit or kind of persistence where they will keep trying at something.

And I guess in the practical sense, my strategies are always to use things like we might watch videos or play games. And so it's really there's no literacy in the sessions, whereas a lot of anxiety work is about worksheets and reading stories and that kind of thing. But we just take all of that out so it can be a time when kids can just experience in the way they feel the most confident and learn lots of ways to manage anxiety and develop resilience.

That's a really good point because even in that context, it's important to individualize, like you said, worksheets and things like that. It's going to be different for a dyslexic kid. You mentioned strengths too. So I'm just curious because we always like to emphasize that too. So it's always nice to hear some specifics. I'd be curious whether it's a specific example of a kid or whether it's just sort of trends you tend to see or I'm sure there's also, you know, individual personalities coming along with this.

But are there some trends or some specific things you've noticed with maybe neurodiverse kids in general and then maybe specifically with dyslexic kids as well? I think there's – I don't know if the strengths are – if I notice trends in terms of strengths, but the biggest trend I notice is that I think our system, whether that's teachers or families as well, in the best interests, you know, in wanting to do the best for their child, tend to focus on what they need to get better at and so they might focus a lot on they need tutoring so we'll provide tutoring and all of that kind of stuff.

But we're not as good as a society in Australia anyway as of focusing on actually what do they enjoy and they're good at and let's give them opportunities to do that. And for me that's a really important part across a child's whole experience that builds that kind of resilience and self-confidence. So I think sometimes it's important to do tutoring for sure but also it's important to do something that they're – that the child's really good at and enjoys.

So I've worked with kids who've been really great at specific sports like golf or soccer or kids who are really creative as well and so have just thrived doing art classes and things like that. And I know it can be a challenge sometimes too simply because maybe particularly if a kid's older, when there is all the homework and all of that to get through or maybe the extra tutoring, I think, you know, people think of it somehow as not, you know, like not frivolous but just don't put as much importance on it when it really is so important.

Yeah, that's right. I always think about what life's going to be like as an adult as well for these kids and how most of us, if we just had to do our job and then, you know, some extra parts to develop skills about the bit of the job we're not that great at, we would probably all be feeling terrible. And so how good is it to have something in our own lives that we look forward to and enjoy and passing that experience on to our kids is really important.

I want to ask you a little bit more about the dyslexia assessments.

So, you know, a couple of questions around that. And the first one is, as someone who assesses for dyslexia, what are some of the top signs that parents should be on the lookout for? I think this is where our systems may differ a little bit. So, I'd be interested to hear if it's different in your system. But here, how we assess for dyslexia is, well, actually, I guess the names have changed a little bit as well.

So, often we're calling it a specific learning disorder in reading and in writing, which is just, you know, confusing for everybody. But following the, yeah. Yeah, it's the same here. It's from the DSR. Yeah. Right. But I think often then parents, I will say to them, so this is what we found. And they say, so does he have dyslexia or not? And I, so it's confusing for parents, right? But so the process is working out whether it looks like it might be dyslexia or something else first for me.

And oftentimes those things might be ADHD or a language difficulty in general. And whether we kind of rule that in or out, then it tends to go on to a cognitive assessment, which is an IQ test. And it looks at a cognitive profile. So there's usually for most kids areas of strength and areas of difficulty. Typically for kids with a learning difficulty, there are cognitive difficulties that underlie that. And so that gives me a little bit of a clue as to what part of the academics might be hard.

And then we go on to do an academic assessment, which is a standardized measure of reading and writing. And you can also do it for maths as well. And so it's about looking at what potential a child has from that cognitive assessment. But with some areas of challenges, areas of challenge, then they might have learning that's below what we would expect. So unexpectedly below their ability is how I do the diagnosis process.

Yeah. So really trying to tease out the ability versus what they're able to demonstrate, demonstrate and produce and do. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And I think I'm trying to remember what your other part of the question was. It was about... Oh, what... What are the signs? Yeah. If a parent is, you know, thinking maybe their kid might... There might be something that needs to be looked at. You know, what would be some sort of signs or indications that they should consider, you know, coming to you or someone else who could assess for dyslexia?

Yeah, I think it's often about how they're progressing with things at school. So whether that's with reading and the reading levels. Sometimes it's if reading seems really effortful. Here we do home readers a lot in those early years of school. So if parents are reading with their child and find that they are, you know, having to maybe sound out or get stuck on the same words over and over and not really picking it up throughout the book or day after day, those are some good signs.

It's usually... I find it's usually about the reading earlier than the spelling because kids learn to read first in our system. And I don't know if it's different there, but our kids learn to just write phonetically to begin with. And so it's not about spelling correctly. It's just about producing some work. So I think that's always going to be a bit... It's always wrong to begin with. So don't be too concerned about that.

But it's the reading more so. Sometimes parents, as their kids get a bit older, notice that their child will be flipping around some letters. So Ds and Bs are a common one to get mixed up or writing some letters backwards and those kind of things.

Yeah. But also we teach in Australia phonics-based reading. Is that the same in America as well? Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's shifted over the years, but currently it's phonics-based. Yeah. It's shifted for us too. And it's just, it's coming into schools more so now that everybody should be doing that. And so that's for listeners who don't know is I explain it as, you know, people can explain it better than this, but I explain it as kind of matching up the sounds we make with the letters.

And if kids have trouble learning that as well, that can be a sign of that auditory processing is not something that's strong for them. And so, yeah, that's a tricky space because here we have some schools that don't teach according to that approach. And so then if kids have difficulty with phonics, we're not quite sure if it's because they haven't been taught in the, you know, scientific way or if it's that they're struggling with it.

but I always say that if, if in doubt, reach out to somebody who can help you sort through that stuff. Yeah. So we've talked about, you know, emphasizing strengths and, really having kids have those other interests that can really help with their confidence, sort of that bigger scale of things. What about, what can parents do sort of on a more daily basis? What do you think some good advice for, for, neurodiverse kids in general, again, and specifically dyslexic kids?

Hmm. I think there's usually recommendations that are given to parents about some things to put in place. And so for, kids, dyslexic kids, it's probably about how to help through intervention for them to, develop skills in literacy. And the rest should be kind of done at school. So things like, altering the way that they're taught in the way that they're tested as well. So I think that's probably one, the, the practical things are putting in place.

What, have been recommended to be able to help your child, but in terms of other things like homework and that kind of stuff, I think, I usually talk about finding the best part of the day to do that. some kids it's morning because they're done by the time they're finished school. And I often talk about trying to have some kind of natural reward in there at the end as well. So maybe it's, that, you know, after homework, we get to do this.

Maybe it's, play a game together or. I don't know, I, I, I hesitate to recommend screen time, but that's often what it is for families. Kids just want to earn that whatever their currency is. But, I probably, if my kids will say, if they learn one thing from me, it's that it's work first and then fun. so I always try and have that natural transition to something more fun afterwards to reinforce the effort that they put in.

so picking the right time and then having a bit of a reward is that my first two approaches. And the third thing though, I think is to know when to push it and when not to. and so that's, I would say that is to pick, pick your battles really. The thing about kids with neurodevelopmental differences. So whether it's ADHD, autism or learning challenges, I think the difficulty they find or they experience fluctuates from day to day.

And so some days can be okay. Some days can feel like there's a lot of demand. and so for autistic kids, that's often if they've. Just had so much on during the school day, they come home and they don't have any capacity to do more. And same with kids with ADHD, but it's, it's a different kind of, experience. They're just really tired from having to pay attention to lots of high demand tasks.

and the same can be true for dyslexic kids as well. If they've had a really big day, so kids, sometimes we can think that if kids can do it one day, they should be able to do it the next. And you should be able to handle this today because you did last week. But I think it's important to acknowledge that their level of functioning is going to change day to day. And so some days your kids won't have the capacity to do it.

And it's probably not worth the fight and the argument if they're really upset. when kids are upset, we know they don't learn anyway. So you may as well just let it go for that one day to have a child who feels good, a parent who feels good, and you can try again the next day. Yeah, that's, that's such good advice. Yes. Definitely, definitely patterns that we have observed as well. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. So I guess, kind of, I guess extending from that, we've talked about sort of strengths of, of dyslexic and neurodiverse kids and sort of how parents can work with them. but, I think we should talk a little bit about, you know, some more serious mental health issues that can kind of co-occur. so things like anxiety and, you know, even depression, I guess is in your observation, are neurodiverse kids, dyslexic kids in particular, more susceptible to any of those kinds of mental health issues?

Yeah, they are. and I think it's true of all people with, a neurodevelopmental condition are more likely to have a co-occurring condition as well. So, in my work, I, a lot of what I do is with kids with ADHD as well. and so about three out of 10 people who are dyslexic will also have ADHD, but ADHD makes it six times more likely to have another challenge as well. So like dyslexia and mental health challenges.

so I think, and sorry, kids with dyslexia are more likely to experience things like stress and depressive symptoms and anxiety as well. So it's interesting that it maybe comes from two places. And I, I, I guess I'm not drawing this on research, but more my own experience. I think there's something about having a developmental difference that makes you more likely to have another developmental difference. So that seems like there's a little bit of a genetic component to it there, but I do think that there's also one can cause the other sometimes.

And I do see a lot of kids who have dyslexia and then after a couple of years develop anxiety, or depression, depression type symptoms. And it's because of the experience I think of, of, of finding things harder than other people or comparing yourself to the others in the class, which I think kids just can't really stop themselves from doing. particularly I think because kids with, you know, dyslexic kids or learning disorder, kids with learning disorders, often when they feel a bit lost, they look around to see what other people are doing as a cue to what they should be doing.

And so they're naturally looking around at everybody else. And so they're naturally seeing that everyone else is, oh, wow, you've written a whole page and that kind of thing. So, I think, yeah, when we talk about depressive symptoms, it's things like having a really low mood, a kind of sense of not enjoying the things that kids used to enjoy. And for both depression and anxiety, it can be changes in things like physical activity levels and appetite, and anxiety, it's usually, it seems fears about things.

So maybe they have a lot of worry about making mistakes, worries about going to school or, or not wanting to go to school. So those are the types of things that parents can look out for to, as clues that their child might need some support. Okay. Yeah. It sounds like, I mean, I'm sure it's very, it's, you know, the earlier you can notice that and get the support probably the better. because in some ways, some of that would sound like you sort of expect it, but then it's important to address it also.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Are there any more, hints you could give us to sort of how to differentiate as parents of dyslexic kids, like how to differentiate sort of normal or expected, like anxiety, or low mood versus when they would really benefit from, from professional help? yeah, I think for anxiety, and so that's because when it's, it's normal to be nervous and anxious for something. So for example, tests at school, it's probably a normal time to have a little bit of anxiety.

and so if dyslexic kids are doing stuff at school, that's hard, they will be that normal kind of anxiety or fear about it. when they start to try and avoid it, you know, I should go back and say, so when we have tests, we, it's normal to feel anxious. If we avoid it, we'd never learn that we can actually get through the experience. It's okay. And that's what then strengthens the anxiety.

So we feel anxious again the next time because we don't have any evidence that we could actually cope with that situation. So I think if your child's starting to avoid doing certain things, if it's trying to avoid homework, if it's trying to avoid going to school or doing certain tasks, that's probably a good sign that it might be time to, to see somebody for some help. and I think for me too, it's, it's those maybe behavior changes that might be a sign that it's, more something like an anxiety disorder or depression.

Rather than just the feelings that go up and down. So the behavior changes might be things like, not changes in their physical activity, not doing as much as they used to. or the other one I mentioned before, was it appetite to losing appetite. Sometimes it's sleep challenges as well. So not sleeping as well as before or sleeping a lot more than before. and those kinds of things seem to be more ongoing with, for an anxiety disorder.

We usually look at if those things have persisted over a couple of weeks. so if you notice them over a few weeks, that's probably a good time to, to talk to somebody for some help. that's all, yeah. Very good advice and sort of a checklist to be thinking about and, just to be aware of too, I think, because sometimes, you know, in the course of daily, busy daily life, something can crop up and then it starts to feel normal.

But, to keep an eye on all that, I think is probably very important. I'm curious, I'm curious, I'm curious about sort of the family system or family dynamics and, you know, having a neurodiverse kid in the home. have you seen particular challenges or issues that come up around that? Yeah, I have. I think it's, that's such a good question because families are systems. and so if you change or there's stress on one part of the system, the rest will feel the effect of that.

and that's, I guess, why I work with children individually, but also with parents as well, because, children are reliant on their parents. So children need help, but also parents need help with, that extra kind of work. But what I notice in terms of families in general is that sometimes there can be sibling issues as well. And so that's sometimes with a feeling of, potentially other siblings feeling like they are left out or they're not, noticed as much because parents are focusing on, the child who.

Needs more support. maybe it's because they, but I don't know, there's no nice way to say it, but from a sibling's point of view, they just think that they don't get as much airtime. You spend all your time with that, that child and I don't get as much. I think kids aren't as great as, they're not always, some kids are, but they're not great at seeing it from a rational point of view.

They see it from an emotional point of view. So they don't see that, their sibling needs more help. And so that makes sense. All they see is that, you know, they're not getting as much. They feel like they're missing out. Yeah. Yeah. What would you suggest in those cases? Do you think that sibling would also benefit from therapy or is it more around sort of family therapy or educating families? What do you think?

I think usually, I think if these kind of, from a psychology point of view, I think there are some issues that are probably, I would think, are normal in the circumstance. And the sibling challenges is probably one of those times as well. I think if you are a parent who's getting help for your child with dyslexia, you could also ask about, you know, the sibling is feeling like this. What, what could I do about it?

And then the psychologist might be able to help you with some strategies. But I think just trying to, again, how you can watch out for it is in terms of behaviors. Maybe, maybe they're actually saying it to you. Maybe they're yelling it at you. So that's a really clear message, but sometimes it might just be through behavior as well. If they're acting out a bit, it's, yeah, picking up, I guess, with that.

Often parents have a gut feeling about something not being right. And so if you've got that gut feeling about how something's just not quite right with, your other child, spending more time with them, even, it doesn't have to be long. It can be short periods every day, maybe five minutes a day, of just listening to them and talking to them and, and filtering out everything else and being there for them is a great way to start that journey back to their child feeling good.

yeah, I know it is really good advice because, I think what you were talking about there with the, the daily, you know, cause I think that can, I mean, sometimes I wonder how much denial can play into, because it's like, if the parents were overwhelmed, you know, then it's hard for them to sort of see another, what might be perceived as another challenge. But like you said, I think that consistency, it's more about the daily consistency more so than even necessarily having to be as long an amount of time.

Yeah, that's right. yeah, and I think this is what I've learned to do differently once having kids of my own is, putting in place strategies that are actually going to be able to fit into family life. If it's busy, so to think about spending an hour with your child, you might think, where am I going to find that? But usually five or 10 minutes a day, you can find somewhere. yeah, and you can play a quick card game in that time or, you know, if I guess your child's a talkative child, they can talk, but often it's, you know, if you're just playing something else, that's when the little words will come out.

They'll, they'll start talking when they don't feel the pressure. Yeah, that's a really good way to handle it. I think, so go ahead. Sorry, I was just going to say the other pattern I've noticed, I think is just a pattern of stress. And I think that's, in the family. And I think that's can often be about the resources that you're, spending on these things. So when kids need extra help, the resources are usually money and time that parents are having to spend and that increases the stress levels of family as well.

And so I often say to families to think about, whether you can practically do these, the things you want to do, both in terms of time and money, because without raising your stress levels. Because if to do those interventions for your child is going to raise your stress levels, it raises all the kids' stress levels as well. and perhaps in that cost-benefit analysis, it may not be worthwhile. and so an example I give is to, for parents to choose options close to home.

So you're not traveling a long way to do, intervention or support with a psychologist and, and to try to think about doing one thing at a time as well. often reports will come with lots of recommendations and if families try and put them all in together at once, it's, it's too stressful. So it's okay to just do the bits that you can manage at a time, and that's going to have better outcomes for everybody.

That's really good advice. Yeah. Because I think, yeah, that could be a lot to take on at once and just even for developing habits and new patterns, right? It's hard to do a lot at once better to start to scaffold it or, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Well, I'm curious, if you've had anything surprising, like as you've come to this journey of working with neurodiverse kids, has anything surprised you? Or perhaps it's something that you think is still a misconception that's out there.

I don't know. that's interesting. I was, I don't know if it's surprising, but I think, I think maybe it's still a misconception, but I think, kids with dyslexia are often seen as kids who can't learn. and that's really not the case. So I see lots of strengths in other areas, lots of creativity, lots of ability in sports, which are all, all great skills. and, but, you know, it's, I mean, that probably isn't surprising to you.

It's not that surprising to me, probably, but, you know, in terms of not being able to learn, I think kids with dyslexia have really great reasoning and problem solving skills a lot of the time. and that can be a surprise to people, usually not their parents. Their parents can see that and say, you know, he's really good at, at solving problems. He's really good at thinking things through. But, I think sometimes not having that literacy come so easily means that kids are looking at things from different angles, and can see connections that we don't maybe see.

So really good with problem solving. I think also another thing I noticed that parents say a lot is that their children have a lot of empathy and they're very, emotionally aware. And I think that's potentially what happens when kids don't find things, everything comes easily to them. They're much more empathic when other kids are going through a difficult time as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That definitely resonates with lots of what we've seen as well.

Right. And it's such a, an amazing skill to have. It really is. Not all kids have that. So. Yeah. Hmm. I guess to, to finish out here, is there anything, anything else that you'd like to add that we, that we haven't asked you about? any, any more tips for parents or, or just anything else that, that you'd like to mention to our audience? I think, you've asked a lot of good questions.

I'm not sure what else there might be left to, to talk about, but I think, I think my last piece of, well, I don't know if it's advice, but observation is to perhaps not worry so much about your child's academic progress. Because I think it's easy to get caught up in that kind of competitive view of academics and think that it's great to have a child who's going to be a high achiever because then they'll have high, you know, outcomes once they finish school.

But I think that's really not the case. It's not always the case. And I think that if lowering the expectations or the pressure on kids is going to help them still be able to learn each year at school, but have, in a, in a, in a way that feels more comfortable and aligned with them because they're not feeling constant pressure. It's going to be good for their mental health and their development in general.

And I think that's going to lead to, you know, a really resilient, good problem solver who knows their own, areas of strength, but also their own challenges and what to do about it and how to advocate for themselves. And it's so interesting because I work a lot with kids with ADHD and most, but I also, because I have a practice in, in Brisbane, Queensland, where I work. so I'm in touch with a lot of other business owners and, and through my online work as well.

Lots of them have ADHD and it's because they have ADHD that they decided I'm not going to do, I'm not going to have a boss. I'm going to do it my own way and do my own thing, and create this kind of life for themselves that really suits themselves. and it's because of that happiness to kind of take risks and see how things go in ADHD that they've been successful. So I think, letting go of that idea that there's one path and, and we need to change our kids to fit that one path and instead supporting them with whoever they are and watching them create their own path, is a really nice way to imagine how, how you help them through the journey of childhood into being an adult.

Yeah, well, that is fantastic. Very wise advice. So I think everyone, you know, whether they have a kid in their life who's neurodiverse or not, could take that message very much to heart. thank you for sharing that. I'd love to hear where can people find you? I know you have a podcast as well, and we'll put all this information in the description box as well, but I'd love to hear you tell us about it too.

Yeah, thank you. So I don't know how many of your listeners are in Australia. We'll, we'll find out, but, well, hopefully more now because I'll be recommending this podcast in, lots of my reports because it's really, I love podcasts for giving information just slowly a bit at a time because it's easier to actually incorporate that way. so I have a podcast as well, it's called Parent Like a Psychologist, and I try and talk about all of the things I've learned, I guess, along the way of being a child psychologist and how that can apply to parenting.

and I have a website, which is leanntran.com.au, and that's where you can find the, parent support that's online. So that could be accessed from any location, or some information about where I practice in person in Brisbane as well. Fantastic. Well, thank you so much again for sharing all of this, all of your, you know, experience and wisdom and insights with our viewers and our, our listeners. You're so welcome. Thank you so much for having me.

It's always such a lovely opportunity to be able to, you know, share some things that might help parents who aren't connected with, with other professionals just yet. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you. We'll see you next time.