Tips and Tricks from a Dyslexia Specialist! ft. Catherine Scholl, Dyslexia Educator and Advocate

And so I'm a firm believer that we need to hold our public school systems accountable for giving our students what they require and what is, it's a right, it's a right for our school districts to teach our children where they are and give them what they need, right? Free and appropriate education.

Hey everyone, we are Sonja and Nick and this is Dyslexia Journey. And today we are excited to welcome back Catherine Scholl for a second interview with her. I will read a short bio about her first. So Catherine Scholl brings a personal and professional perspective to educational advocacy with extensive experience in special education, IEP, and 504 processes. She has worn many hats as a parent of children with learning differences, a special education teacher, and an advocate, offering a well-rounded approach to helping families.

Catherine holds a bachelor's in psychology and a master's in education. She is also a certified special education teacher and a certified dyslexia interventionist. She specializes in conducting academic evaluations and guiding families to ensure students receive the support they need for educational and personal success. Catherine is a member of COPA and adheres to its code of ethics as a non-attorney advocate. Catherine, welcome back to Dyslexia Journey. Hi, great to be here. So the last interview, I'll just tease that a little bit for anyone who might not have heard or seen it yet, what we did was really all about everything you could want to know practically about the college application process and all the different parts of that and selecting colleges.

So that I really recommend that if you haven't had the chance to hear that yet. But today we're going to focus more on professionally because you've been a teacher in special education and also now are an advocate for dyslexic students. And so let's just dive in and find out how this all came to be. So let's hear a little more about how you got into teaching in the first place and perhaps just sort of to start a brief summary of the trajectory of your career.

Sure. I started out with a bachelor's in psychology with a concentration on children way back when. And then I went on to get my master's in education with a concentration on literacy. So I started teaching kindergarten about 27 years ago. And oh, goodness, my journey has taken many paths in the 27 years, but it's always involved working with children. So the master's in literacy, you know, in kindergarten, I was, you know, teaching literacy and, you know, putting down the foundations of reading skills with the little guys.

And, you know, moving forward, I did that. And then when I started having my own children, I had my daughter, Ellie, who's now 18, and she's a freshman in college. She always struggled with literacy from the time she was little. I saw the red flags. And when she was a toddler, I, you know, started really being concerned about her ability to grasp literacy skills. And the schools kept telling me she's fine, she's going to catch up.

But I knew, you know, as a parent, as an educator, something was wrong. And so the school was not willing to help. And so at that point, I knew I would have to go out and educate myself on how to educate her. So at that point, I decided to go back and get my certification in to become a dyslexic interventionist. I am fully certified to teach Orton-Gillingham approach. So I did that, and I was able to help my daughter.

But through that process, other parents started coming to me because they had heard, you know, through the grapevine, the struggles that I was dealing with at the school with my daughter. And I had parents coming to me, can you work with my child? And so I saw such a need for this. I didn't feel so isolated anymore. But I also, you know, was able to help other families get the help that I couldn't get from the school.

And then as I got more and more into that, I realized that most of the students that have dyslexia really require special education, and they weren't getting it. And I realized that I did not know a lot about special education and the process and the laws and the parental rights that we have that I did not know about. So I decided to go back to school again, and I was certified special education teacher, K through 12.

And I started working in a special education setting with students that have dyslexia. And as we know that a lot of students that have dyslexia also have other comorbidity issues like ADHD, anxiety. And so through my special education training, I learned how to do all of the assessments. So I could assess and do the evaluations to uncover strengths and weaknesses of the students. And it was amazing to see how much more I could help the students with my special education background coupled with my dyslexia interventionist certification.

So I did that. And then working in special ed and in the public system for years, I realized that special education and our public education really are failing these students. And I really felt that my hands were tied in a lot of situations being an employee of public education because I wasn't necessarily able to voice what I thought that the student really needed being employed by the school. And I realized that parents need more information off the record that I could not give them as a teacher.

And so at that point, two years ago, I decided to retire from public education and do coaching and advocacy full time. And since then, you know, I have not looked back because I feel like the service that we can offer parents is so useful to help them get their students what they need to succeed in the academic setting, which then flows over into their personal lives as well and just, you know, helps them to be a more healthy person.

Yeah, that's quite a journey, like so many different aspects of it. And I agree, like, that can be really helpful to have those different pieces come together. So I think we're going to hopefully get into some even cases and different things that you've experienced, which I think will be really interesting. Yeah, I guess let's let's delve into kind of the specific techniques that you use a little bit more. So you said you're trained in art in Gillingham.

So I assume that's maybe the primary like remediation pedagogy, I guess, that you use. Is that correct? Yes. So I like to I think that first we need to recognize the difference between being trained and certified. I think in the world of dyslexia right now, it's a huge buzzword in education. And, you know, the science of reading is now, you know, coming back into vogue, which is funny because science of reading has always been there.

Orton-Gillingham has been around and it's always been based on research and the science of reading. But the I think it's important for parents to note that there's a difference between being Orton-Gillingham certified and trained. And a lot of school districts will say, well, we have somebody that's trained. Training could be 10 hours. It could be 30 hours. It could be sitting through a professional development from a book company for two hours on their program.

Certification is really the gold standard of what a literacy specialist should have. In order to be certified, you have to go through rigorous course load. And you also have to do a practicum, which means that you have to work alongside another certified instructor. And you have to actually have a mentor. For me, it was 200 hours. So I had to work with students under a mentor. And that, you know, really gives you an insight of what the lessons look like, what the progress monitoring should look like.

So I always recommend to parents that when they're trying to get somebody to help their child with dyslexia in the Orton-Gillingham approach, that I would look for someone who's certified. And that being said, I believe that the science of reading is the gold standard for teaching a dyslexic learner because it uses a diagnostic, multisensory, explicit, sequential, language-based approach, right? So we're kind of encompassing all of those really important elements of teaching a child how to read and how to have adequate literacy skills in order to get them through life.

Orton-Gillingham approach is, I feel, is the most solid approach. And I have seen firsthand the amazing progress that students made when it's taught with fidelity by someone who is certified to deliver it, right? So I think the big misunderstanding right now in the science of reading world is that Orton-Gillingham is an approach. And underneath that approach, you know, I kind of look at it as like an umbrella. Underneath that Orton-Gillingham approach, which, again, encompasses instruction that's multisensory, that's diagnostic, it's sequential, it's explicit.

Like we are explicitly teaching them black and white skills, right? That's the approach. Underneath that approach, we have so many different programs that may have parts of the approach in it, right? So we have Wilson, a lot of people are very familiar with the Wilson program. We have Spire, then there's Fundations at the earlier level. So there's Linda Mood-Bell that kind of takes pieces of the Orton-Gillingham approach. But the most important part is that the instruction have the components of an Orton-Gillingham approach and that it be done with fidelity.

That it needs to be done by somebody who knows how to do it.

So what, I mean, yeah, obviously you don't know exact numbers, but I mean, what kind of like roughly is your guess of percentages of elementary schools that actually have an Orton-Gillingham certified instructor available? Not a lot. Not a lot. I can tell you that that's the biggest, right now that's the biggest hurdle as, you know, that I deal with as an advocate and a coach helping parents get what their kids need is that we have this awesome IEP.

It states that the child's going to get structured literacy, you know, one time a day for an hour, five days a week. But guess what? The district has nobody to do it. And so this is a huge issue. It's a huge issue across the country to talking to other advocates and other teachers is that we are not certifying teachers to do the adequate instruction that needs to be done to close that gap for dyslexic learners so they can access the curriculum.

And it becomes an issue. So this is where, you know, the fight ensues between family and school because school says, okay, like we know that the child needs this. We do not have the resources. So a lot of times it comes down to getting creative. And I do have to say in the last few years, schools are becoming more proactive in training their teachers. And the big word is training. So they'll say, oh, we have somebody who did a 30-hour Wilson training.

That's who we're going to use, right? As a parent, as an advocate, I say that's not enough. Like we need to do more. And so this is the fight that we have right now in the dyslexic world, I feel. I feel like that's the biggest issue, getting teachers to be certified to give the appropriate education. So what should a parent do? So for the parents who might be listening to this right now and saying, okay, my kid's in elementary school.

They've been identified with dyslexia. But the elementary school doesn't have an Orton-Gillingham certified teacher. Should they, do you recommend looking outside the school for a private tutor in that case, if that's like financially viable? If it's financially viable, sure. But in most cases, it's not. And so I'm a firm believer that we need to hold our public school systems accountable for giving our students what they require and what is, it's a right.

It's a right for our school districts to teach our children where they are and give them what they need, right? Free and appropriate education. So I always recommend that parents start with the school first, right, and be creative, you know, work as a team, work collaboratively and say, you know, okay, I get that you don't have the resources, but what can we do? How can you get those resources, right? Without saying, guess what, that's a you problem, not a me problem, right?

Because that's what it comes down to. But there are a lot of ways, you know, to figure it out. I've seen school districts that will contract out an Orton-Gillingham certified instructor. So they literally, the district will pay the contracted employee to come in and teach the one hour Orton-Gillingham. I've seen districts that, you know, there's power in many voices. So I've seen districts that after many parents, you know, come to them with the same issue, that they will train their teachers internally.

So they'll take, you know, they'll say, okay, you know, staff, who wants to be certified? And then they actually pay for those teachers to be certified. And that's a process. And I have no problem with the student being taught by a teacher that's in their practicum, right? That's going through the process, right? So that's another way to do it. So you have the contracted employee coming in, you have the district training their own employees, or you, as a parent, go and get a private tutor and then ask the school district for reimbursement.

So, okay, you couldn't provide it, but by law, this is their right for you to provide it. So I'm going to get it, and then you're going to reimburse. So there are a lot of, like, ways to work around it, and it really is a case-by-case and district-by-district. But the bottom line is that if a child needs structured literacy, the school district has to figure out a way to provide it. Yeah, and this is a good time to do a plug for a couple of our other interviews, too, because we want to get into lots of other things with you here as well.

But we do have some more information, like we have an interview with Laura Hennigan, who is a lawyer, who really delves into all this, too, in more detail. So if anyone wants to know even more than what you just said, because it does get, you know, a bit complex, and a lot of people don't know about these rights, that's also something that we can link here. Let's take a step back for a second, and I'm kind of combining two questions here, but you can certainly take, we can take them one at a time.

I'd love to hear more about the importance of early identification and remediation, and then kind of along the same lines, but a little different, if a parent's suspecting, because we were kind of talking about that step when they're already identified. What about, like, the very first step when they're just suspecting that their kid might be dyslexic? Yes. And then keeping in mind the importance of early. Yeah, so when you have that feeling, right, your child's coming home, and he's utterly confused, and you're seeing the, you know, red flags.

You're seeing that maybe there's a hard time with word retrieval, right? They can't find their words, or they're having a hard time writing their name, or they're having a hard time identifying letters to sounds. Having a hard time doing things like rhyming, you know, coat and boat, and you're going, what's going on, right? So it's important at that point to reach out to the school first and bring your concerns to the school, and starting there, starting with a relationship with the classroom teacher.

If you feel like you're getting nowhere, you know, then you bring it up a level, right? You bring it to the principal. Everything needs to be in writing. I always say to my families that if it's not in writing, it didn't happen, and if you're seeing these issues in kindergarten or first grade or second grade, and they're telling you they're not seeing it, that may be an indicator that you're going to have to fight.

And so if you are going to have to fight, you want to make sure that you have all of your requests and correspondence in writing in case you do need to go to due process or you need to fight for those services. But, you know, so as a parent, if you see, always just document it and bring it up to the teacher to come up with a plan. Early identification is key.

That is like my golden rule is that we know that early intervention and remediation is the key to better results, right? We should be identifying these children that have reading issues as early as possible because that's going to prevent the cumulative problems that are going to emerge. We know that children who are unidentified and have no remediation, we see other issues that form down the road, anxiety, school avoidance, right? So one of the key attributes of children who don't receive adequate reading instruction is the development of these other issues that we can avoid.

These are avoidable issues most of the time. We want to prevent developmental delays. So early intervention can help prevent those developmental delays and reading difficulties, right? So if a child can't read, then they can't learn, right? So we have to, you know, everybody says we have to learn to read to read to learn. And that is very important. So identifying the specialized learning needs has to happen early. That will help the families identify the learning needs and adopt strategies for the child so they can succeed.

But if we haven't identified their needs, we can't help them. Early identification is also important for optimizing access to print, which is so important. If a child doesn't have access to print, they're not going to move forward, right? It is the basement. It's the foundation of all of the other learning that happens throughout their lives. We have to get them access to print by giving them adequate instruction. Early intervention is also important to improve self-confidence.

So if they're not reading and they feel different in the classroom setting, that is going to affect their self-confidence. So early academic support will build their self-confidence to help them be better learners. And early intervention is most effective when it's done in kindergarten and first grade. Because we know research says if a kid can't read by third grade, you know, the horses – and I hate to say this, you know, the horses have already left the gate.

But intervention is less effective and it's harder to close the gap. So if we can catch those issues in kindergarten and first grade, success is going to be more apparent than if we wait until third, fourth grade. Yeah, so important to realize. You know, and of course, we as well try to emphasize it's never too late and all that kind of thing. But I think what we're talking about here is still the ease of it, how difficult it will be, how it exactly looks, all those pieces.

Yeah, and that early – the early intervention piece is in a lot of states, legislation is occurring to get those early screeners in, right? I'm very passionate that every child should be – have a literacy screener three times a year starting in kindergarten all the way up to third grade. It's the only way that a school is going to see the red flags, documented red flags, right? And we can track that data to see what's happening.

But if we're not doing those early screeners, we're not doing early intervention. Yeah, that's true. All right, I guess let's talk a little bit about your experience working with dyslexic kids specifically. And so, obviously, every child is unique, dyslexic or not. But I was wondering, have you noticed any kind of similarities or trends among dyslexic kids who you've worked with? Well, first of all, they're all amazing. And they're all so unique, and they all are, you know, bring so much to the table.

And trends recently that I'm seeing, especially since COVID, is that students with dyslexia and specific learning disabilities have a more propensity to developing things like anxiety. That social emotional piece comes into play if we are not remediating. And, you know, through COVID, it was very isolating for these students. You know, they were in front of a screen. They didn't have opportunities to interact with their peers, and so it was socially isolating.

But also, they weren't having the opportunities to put a pencil in their hand and have somebody look at them and say, oh, you're holding the pencil the incorrect way. Or why don't we start to the left? Why don't we indent? Why don't we capitalize, right? We weren't seeing that over the screens. So we had, you know, sometimes two years of missed opportunities for that intervention. And I'm not even saying formalized intervention.

I'm saying that intervention that kind of just naturally happens between a teacher and a student of, you know, walking around the classroom and noticing things and immediately correcting them, right? So then we have all of these bad habits that are being formed on top of a child who is already neurobiologically challenged with the dyslexia. And so now we expect them to come back into the classroom with these missing skills and pick up where they're supposed to pick up.

Third grade, third grade, we're reading now all of a sudden. But they haven't been formally taught. So I'm seeing, though that is across the board, I'm seeing that with almost every single student that experienced that COVID lapse, we're seeing those social emotional pieces. We're seeing them become more introverted and into themselves and not as apt to ask for help than they would have been before. So that is definitely one of the trends.

Another trend that I'm seeing with dyslexic learners is that the schools are more apt to put them into a 504 plan instead of an IEP, which I feel is really harmful. I feel that if we do the early intervention and we identify them with a learning need, we need to be giving them the individualized instruction right out of the gate. We need to be, you know, because we know that the quicker we get them to close the gap, the more successful they'll be.

But what I'm seeing in the schools is they're kind of doing like the wait and see approach. Well, let's give them a little, but not everything. And we'll see if a little works. And if it doesn't, then we'll give them more, right? No, we need to go in right away and give them what they need from the time that we recognize that they have dyslexia. And as a parent, you do not let the school district strong arm you into saying, well, we're giving them this and let's see if it works.

No, let's give them everything and get them to where they need to be because we know they can learn. We know that cognitively they are capable of learning. We need to give them the strategies and the tools so they can be successful. Let's not wait. Do it now. Wow. Those are both really important. I did not know that that trend was happening the second one you talked about. And I could kind of imagine with the first one in COVID, but I think those subtleties like you talked about are so important that that's sort of like we kind of know it's not as good, you know, and how it went through.

But like, as you pointed out, some of that just instant feedback and interaction is hard to define all the ways and all the pieces that go into that that are so important. So that was really helpful to hear. So I'm curious about some of your success stories, because I know you, you know, it's been wonderful as you work with these kids. Do you have a favorite success story or two that you'd like to share with us?

Well, I do have a favorite success story, and it's very personal. My daughter, who is dyslexic and also has anxiety and for a time had school avoidance due to the dyslexia in the school and to the, you know, the other issues that she was having. And she, I'm happy to report that she is now a freshman in college in a nursing program. And she worked so hard for so long to get there.

And she knows that the work's not done, right, in her mind. She's like, it's just the getting. But I'm so proud of her perseverance to work through it. She really utilized the accommodations. She utilized the strategies. Whenever she was given a new tool, she ran with it and she internalized it. And I'm proud of her because she speaks about it. She speaks to other students that have dyslexia about it. And she talks about that it doesn't need to be, you know, this great big obstacle.

It doesn't need to define you, right? And a lot of times I think that we focus so much on the negative parts of dyslexia and how tough they are. And, you know, we kind of sometimes you see the kids get into almost like a victim mode. And then it defines them. And that's really dangerous. I think that we need to remember that, yeah, everybody has challenges. But it's how we handle them and how we react and respond to them.

And I'm really proud of her for doing that. And so I'm excited to see what the next four years has in store for her and how she takes the dyslexia and runs with it. I also have just one other quick success story. I had a student who severe dyslexic anxiety. And, you know, he really, really was down on himself. And really, you know, in ninth and 10th grade, we didn't think he was going to make it.

We thought he was going to drop out, right? He was like, just felt so defeated. It was during COVID. And we started giving him in ninth grade. I started giving him one-on-one Orton-Gillingham structured literacy in high school once a day. He worked so hard. And as a side note, he was a football player, right? So we see a lot of dyslexic kids, they kind of pour themselves into other things. And sports, a lot of times, is that passion because they feel successful there.

And they finally feel successful in a part of their life because they don't feel successful in the academic setting. He was an amazing football player. And he was so worried that he wasn't going to be able to play football in college because he was being held back by his academics. He worked so hard. He put a plan in action. He said, I'm going to play D1 football. And I think his mother was like, I don't think that's happening.

And so for three years, he worked on it and he worked on it and he worked on it. And senior year or junior year, we worked on his essay. We worked on the structured literacy. We worked with his classroom teachers to get him where he needed to be. He went out and he did amazing community service work to kind of like show that he was more than just the number on the paper.

And fast forward, he was accepted to play football in a D1 school and he's now a sophomore in college. And, you know, he struggles, but he uses the disability services at his college. He gets a lot of extra help and he's thriving. So that's so proud of him.

Yeah. Well, so I think this is actually a great segue into your advocacy work because they definitely, it sounds like it really overlaps. It's, you know, the educational and the advocacy piece. But you did, you mentioned, make kind of an explicit decision to kind of leave the public school system and work on advocacy full time. Can you talk a little bit more about that and how that's been? Sure. Yep. So I decided to leave the public school setting and do the advocacy.

I do have to say, I do miss working directly with students because it was amazing. As an advocate, I do more work with the families. So the parents come to me when they are struggling getting their child what they need. And so what that looks like is they reach out to me and I do a case review. I look at all of the evaluations that have been done. I look at all of, you know, grades and teacher reports.

And then we come up with a plan. So we say, okay, based on this, this is what we need to do. And I kind of coach them and walk them through the steps and what that looks like. So do we need to apply for a 504? Do we need to request an IEP? Like, is special ed a better place for the student or is 504 accommodations enough for the student? Do they need structured literacy?

If so, how often? How many times a day? How many times a week? And by who? And, you know, I talk to the child. You know, I find out what the struggles are. What do you like best about school? What do you like least about school? How do you feel, you know, in what environment do you feel you learn the best? So we kind of really just dive really deep into the profile of the child and the profile of the family.

Because a lot of times, especially when they're younger, the family school communication is so vital, you know. And then as they get older, we kind of release the family or the parents from that and we give it more to the kids, right? So it's like a scaffolding effect of working with those families and just giving them the tools that they need to get what they need in the school setting. And so that's kind of where the advocacy piece works.

And I felt like I was not able to do that as a special education teacher in the public school setting. Okay. How about, I'm curious also about your role and focus within Right to Read Advocacy. We did have Jennifer Bernheim on recently in the show as the founder. Can you tell us a little more about your role there? Sure. So Jennifer and I met through COPA, which is the Council of Parent Advocates and Attorneys.

And so we did a two-year training to be non-attorney advocates, which means that we can advocate, but we are not attorneys. But we do work with attorneys when we do need that assistance on the law piece. And so Jennifer and I met through there. She actually, her background is very different than mine. She was a parent with a child with dyslexia. And so she advocated for him. And through that, she felt that she had the tools to help other parents.

So hers comes from a parent side. And then my advocacy and coaching piece comes more from the educational side of sitting at the table, not only as a parent, but as an advocate, a special educator, and an administrator. So I kind of see all sides of the piece. And I feel like that's my asset, is that I can see it from all sides. And it helps me be able to empathize with everybody, right?

And so my approach is always as a collaborative coach-team approach when I go to the table. Because I know a lot of times when parents bring advocates or attorneys to meetings, the school district immediately puts their back up, right? Because it's saying, you're telling us that we're not doing what we're supposed to do, and you're bringing somebody in to tell us what to do. So I know that, you know, as a prior teacher and as prior admin, we would see an advocate coming, and we would immediately be like, okay, this is a different case.

And so my philosophy always is to come into it as a team player and coach the parents to give to – they can go to the meetings independently, but I'm kind of in the background helping them, right? I'm devising emails for them. I'm giving them agendas. I'm giving them questions to ask. But then if it escalates and we feel that, okay, the district's not listening to the parent who is an equal team player, then we need to bring – you know, then I need to go sit at the table with the meetings and be more aggressive as a team player.

So the right-to-read advocacy we offer, you know, Jennifer has a couple of advocates from different states that work from the – you know, because their experiences as parents, they went through the process, so now they want to help other parents go through the process. And then I – the right-to-read, I also offer literacy evaluations for students who just need a little bit more data to plead their case on what they need.

Great. Yeah, that's helpful to hear about all those things that people maybe, you know, depending on where they are in their journey, might not even realize they need. But I think it's helpful to know what's out there. It's such a great resource. Yeah, definitely. Well, let's – I think we're getting probably close to needing to wrap up here. So maybe you could give us some of your top tips, specifically for parents of dyslexic kids.

Sure. So my top tip, golden rule, is early intervention is key. If you – if you feel that there is an issue, there probably is. If you see a red flag, bring it up and do not wait. Do not delay. Do not delay in the intervention. Intervention, remediation is key to future success. Yes. Yeah. That is so important. And then how about – so we often bemoan, I guess, like, that we feel like sometimes there's still not a lot of awareness, you know, even though really one in five people identified or not, you know, are probably dyslexic.

It's like that it's still – there's a lot of misconceptions. There's a lot of just, you know, ignorance about it. And I can include myself in that before we went on this journey ourselves. But what's like – if you had a top thing that you would want people to know in the general public about being dyslexic, what would that be? Yeah, yeah, there is a lot of misconceptions about what dyslexia is.

And, you know, I think I've said before I hate to use this word stupid, but, you know, my daughter would always refer to herself as I'm so stupid. And, you know, it's just educating people about what dyslexia is, right, and not ostracizing them. It's important to note that dyslexia is a language-based disorder, and it's neurobiologic in origin. And we know that it's unexpected. So, meaning that it's unexpected because the child has a cognitive profile that allows them to learn, right?

They're not – it's – so we know that they have the ability to learn. It's just that the dyslexia is the barrier. And that if we give them the right tools and strategies that they can, they can succeed and they can do things. So, it's important to get – to educate people on what dyslexia is. I can't tell you how many people hear what I do and they go, oh, like, is that when you, like, reverse a B and a D and you read backwards?

And I'm like, no, like, you know, it's just – there's so much. And there's so many, you know, like, there's, like, the spectrum of dyslexia almost, right? Because we have, you know, dyslexics that have more of a phonological weakness and we have some that have more of a comprehension weakness. And so, it's important to know what dyslexia is so then that way we can give them a targeted program to help them.

And I can't tell you how many times I've talked to teachers that have no idea how to even read a report that shows that a child has dyslexia. So, it's about educating the parents and the teachers on what to look at in an evaluation that shows us the red flags. And then, based on those red flags, we can develop a very unique, specialized program. So, one program is not going to help all dyslexics, right?

It's very specialized. And it's very important to know that. And that's, like, really part of my educational piece is educating the community on what dyslexia is, what it's not, and how we can assist students that have it. And adults. There's a lot of adults that come to me and say, you know, I saw your list of, you know, what dyslexia is and what it's not. I think I might be dyslexic, right?

And it's interesting because it's not just about the Bs and Ds being reversed. Yes, that's very true. Sort of the, like, the nuances and, like you said, that there is so much individualization that goes into it. I think, yeah, I really, I don't think that that is known at all. You know, even beyond just the misconception about what it is and the Bs and the Ds. I think understanding that there's different ways it shows up and looks is really key for people to know, too.

Yes. And now we're finally starting to uncover dysgraphia and dyscalculia, which are, you know, kind of underneath that umbrella of dyslexia. And so, you know, that's important to know because, obviously, we're going to teach a child that has dyscalculia differently than we're going to teach the dysgraphia. There's different tools that we're going to give them. So we can't just, like, put it all in one bucket. Right. Right. Very important. Well, this has been so wonderful, as the other interview was as well.

We could probably talk to you forever. But let's just, we'll put this in the description box and show notes as well. But where can people find you? They can email me directly at cshoel at righttoreadadvocacy.com or visit our website, righttoreadadvocacy.com. We are on pretty much every social media platform. You can check us out on Instagram, Twitter, X. Yeah. So just, or you can just type in Katherine Scholl and contact me directly.

I would be happy to give a consult and see if we'd be a good fit to help each other. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for sharing so much. I know it's going to be so helpful for our viewers and listeners. Great. Thank you for having me. The service that you provide is invaluable to give this information to the parents. Thank you. Thank you.